Srila Prabhupada, His Movement & You

Loving Relationships

From Hansadutta das
20 February 1995

Dear Nalini-Kanta Prabhu:

Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Thank you for your speedy response to my publications. Last time I saw you, I think we were attending a dinner with Hridayananda, Brahmananda, Gargamuni and myself. At that time, I tried to make the point to Hridayananda that meetings, papers or any other official forms for resolving problems amongst devotees, especially those of the inner circle and especially those who were hand-made by Srila Prabhupada, would never be successful. We are in the family of Srila Prabhupada, so family members must have familiar dealings. Formal dealings are for foreigners, for outsiders. The very root of the problem lies in this assumption by some of the godbrothers that they have inherited an office or title which gives them the right to impose or dictate to their godbrothers as noblemen or princes in political power. Any arrangement which honors this attitude of superiority can never yield the desired result. We want love. Dadati pratigrihnati, guhyam akhyati pricchati. I want to love and be loved without fear. We want loving relationships with one another, despite our differences or our defects. A legal relationship will not satisfy the heart. Srila Prabhupada brought us all together, into one family on the basis of love of Krishna. Artificially imposing formalities, like debates or meetings or publishing papers won’t solve the problem.

Even if we accept the democratic process of majority rule, we can see that the majority of the devotees have abandoned the mission and those few obstinate leaders refuse to concede. So where is their integrity? They will never concede. Six out of eleven gurus have fallen, and still they go on manufacturing gurus by the dozen, as if a hundred imperfect men could replace the perfect leader, Srila Prabhupada. ISKCON’s propaganda for re-uniting Srila Prabhupada’s family is bogus, because Srila Prabhupada’s family is already united. Ask any devotee how they feel about Prabhupada, and they will all say, “We love Prabhupada, Prabhupada is the greatest.” So if we take majority rule, we already have the conclusion that Prabhupada should be the leader and all others should be his servants. But a handful of godbrothers will simply not concede, so what is the use of having a debate or meeting or writing a paper? Anyway, I’m sure you understand all these things as well as I understand them, and I don’t want to belabor the point.

I hope this letter meets you well.
Your humble servant,
Hansadutta das

From Hansadutta das
20 February 1995

Dear Arya devi dasi and Vijeta dasa:

Please accept my most humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada! I received your letter dated August 25, 1994, and I also received your article in which you compare the role of the father with that of the guru.

Please forgive me for not replying sooner. I really don’t have an adequate excuse, except to say that I am very disorganized and rather lazy when it comes to correspondence, mainly because it has taken me quite some time to determine exactly in which directly my preaching activities are going to go. Of late we have concluded that preaching on the Internet, world-wide, is really the place to be. I was planning to publish your article in the Nama Hatta newsletter, but then we got caught up in the craze of the Gopimania, and the whole magazine took on a different color. I communicate with Yashodanandan Maharaja regularly, and he always speaks very highly of you and your wife.

Regarding your proposal to establish a Prabhupada Jagannatha Puri project in co-operation with other devotees, I would be very cautious about entering into anything of that nature. It is one thing to associate with devotees intimately and intensely when they are strictly submissive to the authority and lotus feet of the spiritual master, but under the circumstances, all the devotees—almost without exception—are quite slack and casual, and therefore they want to associate with one another on a friendly, equal level. It is not possible to accomplish anything of significance in a casual, friendly environment. Every undertaking requires an executive head. Even in a family of husband and wife, there must be a head. The man must lead, and the woman must follow. If the man and woman attempt to associate on a friendly, equal, casual level, it always ends in grief and misunderstanding. My experience is that the devotional relationship and business relationship cannot co-exist amongst devotees, although many have tried, including myself. The devotional relationship is “what’s mine is yours, what’s yours is mine.” But business relationship necessitates calculation of profit and loss, so immediately I must consider my godbrother in terms of pounds, shillings and pence. So the two relationships—one, the devotional sentiment of love and trust and the other, business, calculation, profit and loss—they cannot mix. So please don’t take offense at my opinion, but this is my practical experience over many years. If there is some necessity for earning money, then better to deal with karmis, with whom one can have a strict business, profit and loss relationship. And with the devotees, we should maintain the open, heart-felt relationship of love and trust.

Yes, I understand your point about Nama Hatta declaring multi-level marketing of the Holy Name. I am out of touch with the mainstream of social change. Well, now that we are going to preach on the Internet, perhaps we will call it Nama Net News. Anyways, thank you for your suggestion. I hope this letter finds you both well.

Your humble servant,
Hansadutta das

From Bhakta das, Bangkok, Thailand
3 March 1995

Dear Hansadutta Prabhu:

Please accept my most humble obeisances at your feet. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada!

This morning I spoke briefly with Adri Dharan. I have been calling him repeatedly the last 10 days, but he only came back from Mayapur last night. His first words were: “It is very bad.”

The TKG/Gopi issue is more or less the only issue discussed for two weeks, and still no resolution! TKG has dominated the proceedings completely, and the only person who is speaking up against him is Hari Vilas. Adri said he sees only disaster for the next year.

The GBC has banned a new book by Kundali and Satya Narayana which supports the conclusions of the previous acharyas that we conditioned souls are eternally conditioned and have never been nitya-lila in Goloka. The GBC has another conclusion. Of course, Srila Prabhupada always told us to just get healthy, but when I study shastra, I cannot find anywhere to support that I was with Krishna in a “rasa” and left.

Adri also mentioned that TKG is now turning against his mentor Narayana Maharaja and blaming all the problems on Narayana Maharaja instead of accepting the responsibility himself! Hari Vilas pointed out this defect in him, and he got rather hot under the collar. The GBC did a private, “no-names” written opinion of TKG, and the negativity astounded him (TKG), but still, because he holds cards against everyone, no one is standing up to face him down.

Anyway, more than ever we see that Srila Prabhupada’s institution is a ship without a rudder right now. Of course, we know already, but still somehow I always hope against hope that someone will put the rudder back in place and grab the wheel.

I am in wonderful spirits, absorbed in bhajan and sankirtan as normal. Sankirtan through the streets is particularly blissful the last few weeks. There is more mercy out there in the crowded Kali-yuga streets than there is in dandavats of Govardhan on Govardhan Puja. Lord Nityananda and Lord Chaitanya seem to like it when we give up the false ego and just chant from the core of our hearts in public!

If you get a chance to get Kundali’s book, Not Even the Leaves Fall (from Vaikuntha), I am sure you will appreciate it. It is thoroughly researched, written in a readable and interesting style, and quite timely. There are several arguments presented which I believe apply equally to the issue of rittvik initiations.

We remember you daily and always pray for your continued advancement in devotional life.

Your humble servant,
Bhakta das

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22 Responses to Srila Prabhupada, His Movement & You

  1. I shall be including sections of this very intelligent, but flawed, commentary in an upcoming article that will be posted on one of our websites. As I told you in 1988, I would read the book that you gave me. I have read, more than once, both of your books, as well as this article. You are close. The quote from Vaikunthanatha, as potent as it appears to be, is still evidence not conclusive proof. Indeed, and somewhat ironically, you have prominently posted in another section of your website, that famous letter you received from His Divine Grace wherein he said that his movement may have gurus given the title of Bhaktivedanta (for their advanced learning and realization in the supreme science) by 1975. This was not realized, however, as we all know. Instead, eleven men–yourself one of them–went, in your own words to me back in the Eighties “way too far.” Nevertheless, misuse of a great science does not render it useless. The rittvik process (and I spell this word exactly as you do, so we have something in common there) in relation to Srila Prabhupada ended on November 15, 1977; the last genuinely initiated disciple of Prabhupada was Mahapurana das, an African-American devotee, at (again, somewhat ironically, although Nityananda prabhu was already in Mississippi by that time) the New Orleans yatra just hours before Prabhupada departed us in manifest form. The real issue here is not rittvik; the real issue is “regular guru, that’s all.” What did that mean? I ask this rhetorically, as I am confident that I know what it means. Similarly, as was revealed in your presence at Topanga Canyon in early December of 1980, the eleven men named on July 9-10, 1977 where not to create any kind of exclusive monopoly based upon their having been given the renewal of the service of rittvik, which had been suspended for a period of time before that summer. I think that you would agree that close is not good enough here. We may put together the pieces of the puzzle in a different chronological order–and that is to be expected–but, when it is finished, all the pieces fit together in one way and one way only. There is one perfect way, and we both agree that the vitiated GBC has not established, nor does it represent, that way. Yet, there arguments have some power to them, especially in terms of pragmatic considerations–Western pragmatism, that is. Indeed, I pick up no dearth of pragmatism in your presentations both in your books and on your website. The issue is not pragmatism itself, as Prabhupada was very results oriented. The issue is the difference between Western pragmatism and Vedic or Vaishnava pragmatism. There is one essential difference between them, and a hint of what that is can be found in Nityananda prabhu’s favorite slogan: Satyam eva jayate.
    One other thing to keep in mind. Kindly do not misread anything personal into this, because it is not intended for any specific initiated devotee (1966-1977) of Prabhupada. We both agree that the GBCs of Prabhupada and his guru deviated in egregious ways. What was the ultimate result thirty years after the first such deviation? Or, rather, how did Lord Chaitanya choose to rectify that situation? It wasn’t via any kind of rittvik arrangement, was it.
    So, I am being stimulated to some extent by what I am reading on your website and in reviewing your books (I have both of them) once again. In due course, it should produce an article that goes into detail on all of these spiritual raw nerve topics. Obviously, I had very little association with His Divine Grace in comparison to your good self; I was only alone with him once for about four minutes. So, you are very blessed, and I admire your spiritual good fortune. It empowers you to carry on, no doubt. Still, you and I have another thing in common that is certainly rare amongst Prabhupada’s actually initiated disciples, viz., neither of us was preached to before coming to the temple and deciding to surrender. I have read your historical account, it was impressive, and I could relate to it. Mine was different, obviously, but the principle was the same. As such, we each stand for something and push something independent of mass opinion and negativity of the enforced conformity. Your version of rittvik–and there are quite a number of them–is different from the others, and that is to be expected, also.
    Once I produce the above-mentioned article (for the first time, I am seriously considering employing the A & A format in doing so), would you like me to notify you of its posting along with a hyperlink? I shall not be offended if you answer this specific query in the negative nor shall I be offended if I do not hear from you at all. We are all meant to reach the stage of sthita-prajna, in which it is certain that His Divine Grace would order us to become diksa-guru, not rittvik. Until then, we are meant to preach to newcomers, stress Prabhupada as their siksa-guru, and keep them in the process at the level of sadhu-sanga. It is an impetus to get very sincere and serious and reach the stage of mahimni sve mahiyate, i.e., drsta evatmanisvare. If we could not or cannot reach even this stage, which is prior to bhava, then what was the meaning of Srila Prabhupada coming here in the first place and training us to become gurus? And he certainly wanted this, as you well know, and as evidenced, if not indeed proved, by his letter to you in 1975.
    Hoping that this meets you and your good wife in good health and cheerful mood, I beg to remain . . .
    Your eternal servant,

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  3. Suvarna says:

    Thank you for this book Hansadutta Prabhu. Very wonderful writing. I am very grateful. Thank you. Your servant Suvarna

  4. Suvarna says:

    is this book available to purchase?

  5. I have no motre copies for saler, you can download the whole text from Nama Hatta, or write to…… perhaps they have a copy,
    Thank you nfor appriociating my realizations. I do not write for money, or noteriety. I have written according to my experience and heart felt love for Prabhupada

    Your humble servant,
    I shaould have done better,
    But I fell. failed and am very repentant about that, and still working to get up and do the right thing.

    • tarunkrishna das says:

      Haribol ji, may i say Hansdutta ji at least you have said you made mistakes , been open about what went wrong for you, not many from that time have or ever will, bless you ji ,..haribol

    • Nilesh Dalal says:

      Hare Krishna prabhuji,
      Please consider to reprint your book not for fame or for glory but to help other innocent jivas from following the bogus gurus. I just discovered your website. But there are others where this message has to be reached. Please help to redirect Prabhupada’s vision in it’s true direction. Senior true devotees like yourself is our only link to the truth.
      Hari Bol.

    • dhaval moradiya says:

      hare krishna
      i want to purchasse of this book …

  6. Martin says:

    Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    For many years I have been searching for the audio of the so-called appointment tape of May 28, 1977. Do you have the audio file, and if so, could you please email it to me or post it to YouTube? I have read the transcript and understand that Srila Prabhupada appointed ritviks, but I would like to hear the audio for myself.

  7. William Regular says:

    Hare Krishna!!
    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!

    Thank you very much for your profound realizations. i really felt indebted.. it gives me more light since you personally advice me to read first before i come to visit any ISKCON temple. i will write you someday in regards of this book.
    Again, thank you very much Hansadutta Prabhu

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  9. Lou says:

    Dear Hansadutta Das,
    I remember you in Berkely in 1976 or so. I used to frequent the temple there often. I have not been to an ISKCON temple since then although I occasionally try to keep up on ISKCON news. I am a devotee of Avatar Meher Baba. I have no qualifications to judge but the letter you’ve shared seems to clearly spell out Srila Prabhupada’s wishes. It makes it very clear: “The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada …” It is truly a shame that ISKCON has been divided all these years and I pray your efforts are helpful. Congratulations on your honesty and sincere work.

  10. Probir saha says:

    Jay radha!! I love “krishna” but i love you too.,’prabhupada’

  11. Vishnujana says:

    Hansadutta please accept my humble obeisances as a older Godbrother. I would like to talk to you about the ritvik system and where do you stand with post 1977 ISKCON. I would also like to know if you yourself know about the poisoning of our Spiritual Master A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada by your Godbrothers (perhaps you were aware but did not do anything) as well as your Godbrothers and the heinous acts they have done such as kirtananda and bhakti thirtha and many others. Please write back to me as soon as possible. If you truly following Srila Prabhupada you would allow for us to start a conversation to help this poor lost soul find some happiness. You are one of the last Ritvik Representative of Srila Prabhupada who was chosen by HIM. do not let this go to waste. Rise up Hansadutta and fight for Srila Prabhupada if you are sincere. Do not become clouded by illusion like arjuna at the battle of kurusetra with his family members. Just because they are your Godbrothers does not make it right to let them destroy Prabhupada ISKCON and take so many to hell with them. there are many scattered sects of the ritvik camp around the world with some truly devoted to Prabhupada and others for some materialistic purposes. Are we to let our faith become like the christian faith which is scattered from protestant to catholic to coptic orthodox to Pentecostal? Why do you sit and do nothing? Become a true ritvik and defend Prabhupada order and stop this second poisoning which is being done to Prabhupada Books. They are new devotees that are coming in this movement and many are lost because of the so many ritvik camps as well that they do not want to associate with ISKCON example my self and few friends. All I ask of you from my self is to write back to me so we may talk with my friends on your place and what we can do. Hare Krsna Jai Prabhupada.

    • Vishnujana says:

      Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
      Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.

      Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm?

      Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain?
      Translation: What is he saying?

      Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai.
      Translation: Someone says that someone has given poison.

      Kaviraja: Kisko?
      Translation: To whom?

      Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko.
      Translation: To me.

      Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai?
      Translation: Who said?

      Srila Prabhupada: Ye sab friends.
      Translation: These all friends.

      Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?
      Translation: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?

      Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche.
      Translation: They all say.

      Tamal Krishna: Krishna das?

      Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega?
      Translation: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?

      Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?

      Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said.

      Exchange 1 – Mixture of English, Hindi and Bengali (9/11/77)

      Jagadisha: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the parikrama? (travelling to visiting holy places)
      Prabhupada: …good paddy.
      Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program. It seems to some of us like it’s suicidal.
      Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.
      Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, “And this is also suicide.” Now you have to choose which suicide.
      Prabhupada: The Ravana (A great demon) will kill and Rama (God) will kill. Better to be killed by Rama. Eh? That Marica–if he does not go to mislead Sita, he’ll be killed by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
      [Room Con. Nov. 10, 1977, Vrndavana, India]

      Prabhupada: All right. You take Babaji Maharaja. That will be my going. (“devotees” laugh)
      Krsna dasa Babaji: Jaya. (laughter)
      Tamala Krsna: Yes, the bullock cart will go tomorrow
      Prabhupada: Yes.
      Tamala Krsna: To Govardhana.
      Prabhupada: Yes, other devotees can go. I cannot go.
      Tamala Krsna: No, they’ll go on your behalf, but you will go one day. That we promise you. (“devotees” laugh)
      “Devotee ?”: (under breath) Sati (other “devotees” laugh)
      Prabhupada: All right.
      Tamala Krsna: Our greatest pleasure will be to take you on tirtha-yatra, Srila Prabhupada. We wanted so much to go with you on that.
      Prabhupada: Thank you very much.

      (Vrindavana, India – 10th November 1977)

      here is the conversation of his final days. You were there werent you? therefore if you knew of this publicly repent and work to fight against your “Godbrothers” and if you sincerely and honestly did not know then research and hear what they did to our Guru Maharaj and understand what you must do.

  12. Krishna Tungal says:

    All Glories to Srila Prabhupada,
    Hare Krishna to all the devotees.

    What Vishnujana Prabhu said is 100000% true. Hansadutta Prabhu, you can do it, we all here to support you..


    Your servant
    Krishna Tungal

    • Aaca says:

      Dear Jagaddharta Prabhu Thank you for your comments. I beelive that you are correct in your appraisal that we have underestimated world affairs as a causative influence. Srila Prabhupada has given us all the knowledge and perspective to understand the complexities of modern life and how we are entangled in the modes and more importantly how to get disentangled. Srila Prabhupada gives us the tools it is up to us how or when or if we employ them. He nor Krsna will do this as this is our duty to free ourselves. The Demon Kali has his agents both outside and inside of FISKCON. To have them inside ISKCON is impossible for inside ISKCON is where Srila Prabhupada’s vision lies illuminating the absolute truth. FISKCON adherents do not have this vision and so they will cheat us. It is only when we can understand this difference, that is between ISKCON and FISKCON that we can begin to free ourselves. Yes no one comes close to Srila Prabhupada! Nor are they meant to. He is the Acharya of ISKCON no one else. We have to all come together by aligning our visions to his and in order to do this we must understand our predicament within the Geopolitical sphere and to know where the Krsna Consciousness Movement is being compromised, where our own vision has been affected and obscured. Yours in the service of Srila PrabhupadaAdmin

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  16. Hansadutta Prabhu, you are in an excellent position to understand the ritvik issue because you were an ISKCON temple president, a member of the GBC body, a BBT trustee, an “appointed guru,” and a “zonal acharya.” Your booklet is what convinced me, even before “The Final Order” was published.

    Also, no ISKCON leader dares to debate with you. All that they ever do is resort to low-class name-calling!

  17. hansadutta das says:
    September 12, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    I have no motre copies for saler

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