Srila Prabhupada, His Movement & You

From Shyamasundar das,
Cebu, Philippines
15 February 1994

Dear Bhima Prabhu:

All glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Srila Hansadutta!

I received your letter dated 15 November 1993 with the magazine, Srila Prabhupada, His Movement and You. And also the letter of Hansadutta to the readers with it, Srila Prabhupada’s centennial note, on the 12th of February, 1994. I just wonder why it took so long to reach here.

Anyway, it is so nice of you to send it to me, cause it gives me a new realization about this guru business, which is causing much chaos for the devotees (not all, of course). Especially these fanatic devotees
which are so proud of their so-called survivor guru.

But anyway, as devotees of Krishna, our real aim is to go back to Him, back to Godhead, through this Krishna consciousness movement, which was introduced in the beginning by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada by chanting this maha-mantra, Hare Krishna, Hare Rama, and following the four regs of spiritual life and reading his books. So this is it. This is all we have inherited from Srila Prabhupada, “the one spiritual master for this age.” So why bother about it. Anyway, as I see it, it’s just an influence of Kali.

So now that Srila Hansadutta has presented it clearly to all, the truth behind many speculations about this guru thing in ISKCON and outside as well, it’s up for grabs for everyone who is sincere to Srila Prabhupada.

I just hope that when Srila Prabhupada’s centennial comes, two years from now in 1996, all devotees would realize this bold and clear presentation of Srila Hansadutta Maharaja, that Prabhupada wants them to act as rittvik representatives and after some time, by following the order of Guru Acharya, they become fit to be guru!

Hari bol.

Your most unworthy god-brother,
Shyamasundar das

P.S. I’ll try to find out about Radhanath and share this to him. We haven’t seen each other for quite a long time. I’m also reaping so much bad karma nowadays (family trouble). Anyway, (BG 2.14) matra sparshas tu kaunteya:

blockquote>O son of Kunti, the nonpermanent appearance of happiness and distress, and their disappearance in due course, are like the appearance of winter and summer seasons. They arise from sense perception, O scion of Bharata, and one must learn to tolerate them without being disturbed.


From Damodar das of Portland, Oregon
21 February 1994

Dear Hansadutta Prabhu:

Please accept my obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada!

Thank you very much for responding so promptly to my last letter.

It’s great to get a bundle of engaging reading material. I have read through everything twice, and I must say I concur completely with your conclusions. I think your presentation is the most direct and logical approach to date.

I was somewhat dismayed that I couldn’t find my name on your list of initiated disciples, which led me to think that perhaps you may have me confused with one of the other Damodars on the list, which I can completely understand, considering that I don’t think that we ever really associated much, and the little that we did was about 14 years ago. … I have been struggling so long with this issue of where do I stand in relation to Prabhupada? you? ISKCON, etc. that I finally feel that the truth has emerged, and I want to be a part of it, and I suppose part of that for me is a recognition from you of my initiation. I also have an audio cassette of the entire ceremony, if that helps…

I had been searching for some association and spiritual guidance. What I got was a bunch of egocentricity, fanaticism and manipulation (and more debt). So I have just recently moved back to Portland and plan to think long and hard about any future moves, being aware that association is of paramount importance for any devotee, I just cannot afford another ill-planned decision. I would, however, like to drive down sometime and check out your program there in Cloverdale. If you could tell me a good time and give me directions, perhaps I could visit this spring sometime?

Meanwhile I sure would appreciate any other reading material that you might have. I have enclosed a small contribution herein. Again, thank you for everything. Hoping this meets you in the best of health.

Your insignificant servant,
Damodar das


From Sachisuta das,
Birmingham, West Midlands, UK
7 March 1994

Dear Hansadutta Prabhu:

Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada.

Thank you for your thoughtful and personal letter (February 25, 1994) in reply to mine of February 13, 1994, received March 3, 1994. Much appreciate your latest thoughts and realizations, etc., included in “Letters” and Excommunicated, Uncommunicated, Incommunicado.

Our Sunday program at Birmingham University is only small. None of us expert in kirtan, etc., so are struggling to maintain this at the moment, hoping to get our own place eventually.

In regards to the Manor closing, to date, as far as we are aware, the order at council, etc. is restricting visitors only, so perhaps will continue for some time, as not sure how the Indian community will react, so if financial support dries up, will be little difficult to continue on same capacity as during large festivals and Sunday programs, etc.

I was telling you in last letter that Birmingham ISKCON temple president (now Govinda Bhakta, through Gour Govinda Maharaja) had formulated 22 page arguments against rittvik, before going to India, asking us to meet with him on his return to discuss. I received a message that he phoned Birmingham from India to let me know of “important events” at Mayapur and that he is sending me personal letter in this regard. If I receive before posting this, I will enclose photocopy for you. I still have “friendly” relationship with him, not sure how long will last, though, especially as this is third time “lucky” for him (Jayatirtha, Bhagavan, Gour Govinda Maharaja). Hope reconciliation possible, yet you seem doubtful, as do we all here. Especially after reading Sulochan’s book, your strong opinions, my own personal encounters, etc. (Have you read Sulochan’s book? What did you think of it?)

In my first letter I hinted that ISKCON GBC may rue the day they didn’t grab you back in their “camp,” had not realized how determined you are to fight for our beloved Srila Prabhupada and his movement. Now the giant has re-awakened, so I think somebody had better watch out, although as you say, you would like to move forward positively, I detect you are relishing the upcoming struggles??

So Prabhu, it seems that you may soon be considered a leader again as rittvik is firmly established as Srila Prabhupada’s order. Perhaps you may or may not accept this leadership position? Although sure you won’t shirk any opportunity to establish Srila Prabhupada and the Sampradaya Acharya above all.

May I please bring in a note of caution? For as this contentious issue is resolved, the pratisthayou have mentioned could reappear, couldn’t it? Who knows what Mayadevi has up her sleeve, eh Prabhu? So although I am convinced that your humility, attained through the direct experience (your words) is genuine, as good management and strength of character will again be necessary, it’s possible the same or similar tendencies may arise (no one more aware of this than you, perhaps, Prabhu?). In this regard, may I please urge you to be constantly vigilant, there is hope now, small light at the end of a dark tunnel. I hope this is not offensive, yet you and those like you have great responsibility. The horrendous events of the last 16+ years must never be repeated, else we are all finished. Sure you agree and are aware of this, however. Not sure of your Nama Hatta associates or your married situation, etc., so would you please convey my obeisances and best wishes to all? Thank you. Jai Hari bol. Hare Krishna.

Your well-wisher,
Sachisuta das

P.S. So Prabhu, am sending this of 3/12/94. No sign of letter from India. Thanks once again for last letter and the literature. Of course, would be most pleased to hear from you again with advice and suggestions how to proceed, yet please don’t feel obliged, as you have much more important things to do. We are relying on you as strong support. Hope that is okay. Jai hari bol. Srila Prabhupada ki jai.

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22 Responses to Srila Prabhupada, His Movement & You

  1. I shall be including sections of this very intelligent, but flawed, commentary in an upcoming article that will be posted on one of our websites. As I told you in 1988, I would read the book that you gave me. I have read, more than once, both of your books, as well as this article. You are close. The quote from Vaikunthanatha, as potent as it appears to be, is still evidence not conclusive proof. Indeed, and somewhat ironically, you have prominently posted in another section of your website, that famous letter you received from His Divine Grace wherein he said that his movement may have gurus given the title of Bhaktivedanta (for their advanced learning and realization in the supreme science) by 1975. This was not realized, however, as we all know. Instead, eleven men–yourself one of them–went, in your own words to me back in the Eighties “way too far.” Nevertheless, misuse of a great science does not render it useless. The rittvik process (and I spell this word exactly as you do, so we have something in common there) in relation to Srila Prabhupada ended on November 15, 1977; the last genuinely initiated disciple of Prabhupada was Mahapurana das, an African-American devotee, at (again, somewhat ironically, although Nityananda prabhu was already in Mississippi by that time) the New Orleans yatra just hours before Prabhupada departed us in manifest form. The real issue here is not rittvik; the real issue is “regular guru, that’s all.” What did that mean? I ask this rhetorically, as I am confident that I know what it means. Similarly, as was revealed in your presence at Topanga Canyon in early December of 1980, the eleven men named on July 9-10, 1977 where not to create any kind of exclusive monopoly based upon their having been given the renewal of the service of rittvik, which had been suspended for a period of time before that summer. I think that you would agree that close is not good enough here. We may put together the pieces of the puzzle in a different chronological order–and that is to be expected–but, when it is finished, all the pieces fit together in one way and one way only. There is one perfect way, and we both agree that the vitiated GBC has not established, nor does it represent, that way. Yet, there arguments have some power to them, especially in terms of pragmatic considerations–Western pragmatism, that is. Indeed, I pick up no dearth of pragmatism in your presentations both in your books and on your website. The issue is not pragmatism itself, as Prabhupada was very results oriented. The issue is the difference between Western pragmatism and Vedic or Vaishnava pragmatism. There is one essential difference between them, and a hint of what that is can be found in Nityananda prabhu’s favorite slogan: Satyam eva jayate.
    One other thing to keep in mind. Kindly do not misread anything personal into this, because it is not intended for any specific initiated devotee (1966-1977) of Prabhupada. We both agree that the GBCs of Prabhupada and his guru deviated in egregious ways. What was the ultimate result thirty years after the first such deviation? Or, rather, how did Lord Chaitanya choose to rectify that situation? It wasn’t via any kind of rittvik arrangement, was it.
    So, I am being stimulated to some extent by what I am reading on your website and in reviewing your books (I have both of them) once again. In due course, it should produce an article that goes into detail on all of these spiritual raw nerve topics. Obviously, I had very little association with His Divine Grace in comparison to your good self; I was only alone with him once for about four minutes. So, you are very blessed, and I admire your spiritual good fortune. It empowers you to carry on, no doubt. Still, you and I have another thing in common that is certainly rare amongst Prabhupada’s actually initiated disciples, viz., neither of us was preached to before coming to the temple and deciding to surrender. I have read your historical account, it was impressive, and I could relate to it. Mine was different, obviously, but the principle was the same. As such, we each stand for something and push something independent of mass opinion and negativity of the enforced conformity. Your version of rittvik–and there are quite a number of them–is different from the others, and that is to be expected, also.
    Once I produce the above-mentioned article (for the first time, I am seriously considering employing the A & A format in doing so), would you like me to notify you of its posting along with a hyperlink? I shall not be offended if you answer this specific query in the negative nor shall I be offended if I do not hear from you at all. We are all meant to reach the stage of sthita-prajna, in which it is certain that His Divine Grace would order us to become diksa-guru, not rittvik. Until then, we are meant to preach to newcomers, stress Prabhupada as their siksa-guru, and keep them in the process at the level of sadhu-sanga. It is an impetus to get very sincere and serious and reach the stage of mahimni sve mahiyate, i.e., drsta evatmanisvare. If we could not or cannot reach even this stage, which is prior to bhava, then what was the meaning of Srila Prabhupada coming here in the first place and training us to become gurus? And he certainly wanted this, as you well know, and as evidenced, if not indeed proved, by his letter to you in 1975.
    Hoping that this meets you and your good wife in good health and cheerful mood, I beg to remain . . .
    Your eternal servant,
    KAILASA CANDRA DASA

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  3. Suvarna says:

    Thank you for this book Hansadutta Prabhu. Very wonderful writing. I am very grateful. Thank you. Your servant Suvarna

  4. Suvarna says:

    is this book available to purchase?

  5. I have no motre copies for saler, you can download the whole text from Nama Hatta, or write to daschan@streamyx.com…… perhaps they have a copy,
    Thank you nfor appriociating my realizations. I do not write for money, or noteriety. I have written according to my experience and heart felt love for Prabhupada

    Your humble servant,
    I shaould have done better,
    But I fell. failed and am very repentant about that, and still working to get up and do the right thing.

    • tarunkrishna das says:

      Haribol ji, may i say Hansdutta ji at least you have said you made mistakes , been open about what went wrong for you, not many from that time have or ever will,..so bless you ji ,..haribol

    • Nilesh Dalal says:

      Hare Krishna prabhuji,
      Please consider to reprint your book not for fame or for glory but to help other innocent jivas from following the bogus gurus. I just discovered your website. But there are others where this message has to be reached. Please help to redirect Prabhupada’s vision in it’s true direction. Senior true devotees like yourself is our only link to the truth.
      Hari Bol.

    • dhaval moradiya says:

      hare krishna
      i want to purchasse of this book …

  6. Martin says:

    Hare Krishna. Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

    For many years I have been searching for the audio of the so-called appointment tape of May 28, 1977. Do you have the audio file, and if so, could you please email it to me or post it to YouTube? I have read the transcript and understand that Srila Prabhupada appointed ritviks, but I would like to hear the audio for myself.

  7. William Regular says:

    Hare Krishna!!
    Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada!!

    Thank you very much for your profound realizations. i really felt indebted.. it gives me more light since you personally advice me to read first before i come to visit any ISKCON temple. i will write you someday in regards of this book.
    Again, thank you very much Hansadutta Prabhu

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  9. Lou says:

    Dear Hansadutta Das,
    I remember you in Berkely in 1976 or so. I used to frequent the temple there often. I have not been to an ISKCON temple since then although I occasionally try to keep up on ISKCON news. I am a devotee of Avatar Meher Baba. I have no qualifications to judge but the letter you’ve shared seems to clearly spell out Srila Prabhupada’s wishes. It makes it very clear: “The newly initiated devotees are disciples of His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada …” It is truly a shame that ISKCON has been divided all these years and I pray your efforts are helpful. Congratulations on your honesty and sincere work.

  10. Probir saha says:

    Jay radha!! I love “krishna” but i love you too.,’prabhupada’

  11. Vishnujana says:

    Hansadutta please accept my humble obeisances as a older Godbrother. I would like to talk to you about the ritvik system and where do you stand with post 1977 ISKCON. I would also like to know if you yourself know about the poisoning of our Spiritual Master A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada by your Godbrothers (perhaps you were aware but did not do anything) as well as your Godbrothers and the heinous acts they have done such as kirtananda and bhakti thirtha and many others. Please write back to me as soon as possible. If you truly following Srila Prabhupada you would allow for us to start a conversation to help this poor lost soul find some happiness. You are one of the last Ritvik Representative of Srila Prabhupada who was chosen by HIM. do not let this go to waste. Rise up Hansadutta and fight for Srila Prabhupada if you are sincere. Do not become clouded by illusion like arjuna at the battle of kurusetra with his family members. Just because they are your Godbrothers does not make it right to let them destroy Prabhupada ISKCON and take so many to hell with them. there are many scattered sects of the ritvik camp around the world with some truly devoted to Prabhupada and others for some materialistic purposes. Are we to let our faith become like the christian faith which is scattered from protestant to catholic to coptic orthodox to Pentecostal? Why do you sit and do nothing? Become a true ritvik and defend Prabhupada order and stop this second poisoning which is being done to Prabhupada Books. They are new devotees that are coming in this movement and many are lost because of the so many ritvik camps as well that they do not want to associate with ISKCON example my self and few friends. All I ask of you from my self is to write back to me so we may talk with my friends on your place and what we can do. Hare Krsna Jai Prabhupada.

    • Vishnujana says:

      Srila Prabhupada: Keu bole je keu poison kore diyeche. Hoy to tai.
      Translation: Someone says that I’ve been poisoned. It’s possible.

      Balaram Mishra (?): Hmm?

      Kaviraja: Kya farma rahe hain?
      Translation: What is he saying?

      Srila Prabhupada: Koi bolta hai je koi mujhko poison kiya gaya hai.
      Translation: Someone says that someone has given poison.

      Kaviraja: Kisko?
      Translation: To whom?

      Srila Prabhupada: Mujhko.
      Translation: To me.

      Kaviraja: Kaun bolta hai?
      Translation: Who said?

      Srila Prabhupada: Ye sab friends.
      Translation: These all friends.

      Bhakticharu: Ke boleche, Srila Prabhupada?
      Translation: Who said, Srila Prabhupada?

      Srila Prabhupada: Ke boleche.
      Translation: They all say.

      Tamal Krishna: Krishna das?

      Kaviraja: Ao ko kaun poison dega? Kis liye dega?
      Translation: Who would give you poison? Why would anyone do that?

      Tamal Krishna: Who said that, Srila Prabhupada?

      Srila Prabhupada: I do not know, but it is said.

      Exchange 1 – Mixture of English, Hindi and Bengali (9/11/77)

      Jagadisha: Srila Prabhupada, can you tell us why you want to go on the parikrama? (travelling to visiting holy places)
      Prabhupada: …good paddy.
      Tamala Krsna: This seems like suicide, Srila Prabhupada, this program. It seems to some of us like it’s suicidal.
      Prabhupada: And this is also suicidal.
      Tamala Krsna: Hm. Prabhupada said, “And this is also suicide.” Now you have to choose which suicide.
      Prabhupada: The Ravana (A great demon) will kill and Rama (God) will kill. Better to be killed by Rama. Eh? That Marica–if he does not go to mislead Sita, he’ll be killed by Ravana; and if he goes to be killed by Rama, then it is better.
      [Room Con. Nov. 10, 1977, Vrndavana, India]

      Prabhupada: All right. You take Babaji Maharaja. That will be my going. (“devotees” laugh)
      Krsna dasa Babaji: Jaya. (laughter)
      Tamala Krsna: Yes, the bullock cart will go tomorrow
      Prabhupada: Yes.
      Tamala Krsna: To Govardhana.
      Prabhupada: Yes, other devotees can go. I cannot go.
      Tamala Krsna: No, they’ll go on your behalf, but you will go one day. That we promise you. (“devotees” laugh)
      “Devotee ?”: (under breath) Sati (other “devotees” laugh)
      Prabhupada: All right.
      Tamala Krsna: Our greatest pleasure will be to take you on tirtha-yatra, Srila Prabhupada. We wanted so much to go with you on that.
      Prabhupada: Thank you very much.

      (Vrindavana, India – 10th November 1977)
      http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/paul/08.mp3

      here is the conversation of his final days. You were there werent you? therefore if you knew of this publicly repent and work to fight against your “Godbrothers” and if you sincerely and honestly did not know then research and hear what they did to our Guru Maharaj and understand what you must do.
      http://www.prabhupada.org.uk/paul/prabhupada_poisoned.htm

  12. Krishna Tungal says:

    All Glories to Srila Prabhupada,
    Hare Krishna to all the devotees.

    What Vishnujana Prabhu said is 100000% true. Hansadutta Prabhu, you can do it, we all here to support you..

    HariBol….

    Your servant
    Krishna Tungal

    • Aaca says:

      Dear Jagaddharta Prabhu Thank you for your comments. I beelive that you are correct in your appraisal that we have underestimated world affairs as a causative influence. Srila Prabhupada has given us all the knowledge and perspective to understand the complexities of modern life and how we are entangled in the modes and more importantly how to get disentangled. Srila Prabhupada gives us the tools it is up to us how or when or if we employ them. He nor Krsna will do this as this is our duty to free ourselves. The Demon Kali has his agents both outside and inside of FISKCON. To have them inside ISKCON is impossible for inside ISKCON is where Srila Prabhupada’s vision lies illuminating the absolute truth. FISKCON adherents do not have this vision and so they will cheat us. It is only when we can understand this difference, that is between ISKCON and FISKCON that we can begin to free ourselves. Yes no one comes close to Srila Prabhupada! Nor are they meant to. He is the Acharya of ISKCON no one else. We have to all come together by aligning our visions to his and in order to do this we must understand our predicament within the Geopolitical sphere and to know where the Krsna Consciousness Movement is being compromised, where our own vision has been affected and obscured. Yours in the service of Srila PrabhupadaAdmin

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  16. Hansadutta Prabhu, you are in an excellent position to understand the ritvik issue because you were an ISKCON temple president, a member of the GBC body, a BBT trustee, an “appointed guru,” and a “zonal acharya.” Your booklet is what convinced me, even before “The Final Order” was published.

    Also, no ISKCON leader dares to debate with you. All that they ever do is resort to low-class name-calling!

  17. hansadutta das says:
    September 12, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    I have no motre copies for saler

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